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Denyse Allen's avatar

Agree on the value of an editor, especially if it will be published somewhere. I hired one when I did my books on Pennsylvania research and I joke that the manuscript looked like a blood bath, but it was worth it. I also used beta readers, but focused them on “what else would you like to know” to make sure I wasn’t missing anything.

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Kirsi Dahl's avatar

I like that idea! Did you personally know your beta readers?

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Denyse Allen's avatar

They were on my email newsletter list and I just asked for readers. I gave them a signed copy of the book when it came out.

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Barbara at Projectkin's avatar

Brilliant, thank you, Kirsi. Where would you recommend we start in the hunt for an editor? Do you have any tips or pointers on the questions to ask to help us find a good fit? I've hired editors for tech writers, but that's an entirely different role.

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Kirsi Dahl's avatar

Thank you for commenting, Barbara, and good questions that I should have thought to address in the episode.

For straight-up copy editing, I think it depends on your audience. For me, while I love sharing my stories with the other family history and genealogy writers here on Substack and getting feedback, I write for myself first and foremost, and my family secondly (i.e., cousin bait). That is why it works for me to use a friend who enjoys reading and has a good sense of sentence structure and grammar. My writer/editor relationship with Paula started a bit organically and has luckily worked out great, as she provides me with encouragement and suggestions and she doesn't try to reword things to her preferred style. Plus, I only publish 1x/week, on average. So I know I'm not overloading my friend, who does the work out of the kindness of her heart.

But, for those that need to find an editor -- even if it is "just" a friend, I suggest questions like those below:

- What is your philosophy on editing?

- Would you review several of my pieces I've already published and advise where you think I need the most work? Is there a consistent issue that you're seeing? How would you address?

- After reading several of my pieces, define my voice; what type of criteria would you put in place to ensure MY voice is always coming through?

- What type of processes work best for you?

- What tools and resources do you use to help you do the work of an editor?

In a pinch, AI can be a good editor too, with the right prompt. A suggested prompt might be:

Please review my story for clarity, flow, and conciseness while keeping my voice and style intact. Suggest improvements for readability, remove unnecessary words, and refine awkward phrasing, but do not change the overall tone or content. Highlight the areas that might need more detail or emotional depth. Do not rewrite entire sections — just provide targeted edits and feedback. <paste your story here>

Thanks for the nudge to address your points, Barbara! I'd love to hear any tips or pointers you or others may have!

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Barbara at Projectkin's avatar

Yes, thank you. These are superb questions.

After feedback from a confused reader of one of my pieces, I invested in Grammarly's paid level. As a sloppy writer, I found it very helpful. However, it's not an editor.

The way I see it, when you're ready to ask people for money for your writing, you should be willing to pay to polish it like a professional.

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Mary Jo Wiseman, CMP's avatar

Nicely done. Very helpful; positive; informative. Good job both of you.

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Mary Jo Wiseman, CMP's avatar

Is there a way for me to share your video with my Women of Word (WOW) group?

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Kirsi Dahl's avatar

Hello! Glad you enjoyed the podcast. To share, find the “upward” facing arrow. It’s right by the heart, comment and restack icons. Once you click on that, there is an option that says “copy link”… I hope your group finds it helpful!

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Mary Jo Wiseman, CMP's avatar

I tried this but it didn't work. Sorry.

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Kirsi Dahl's avatar

I’m sorry too. 😟

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Deborah Sweeney's avatar

Oh Hallelujah! I am so frustrated by many “professionals” in the genealogy community who don’t believe(or understand the necessity) in editors and it shows in their finished projects.

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Kirsi Dahl's avatar

My first instinct is just to be glad people are writing the stories at all. But then I shift to “but let’s make them good!” And “good” does not mean perfect by any means. It simply means engaging. And that requires a second pair of eyes.

I hope you find someone consistent to help you!

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Deborah Sweeney's avatar

I agree 100%! If we could just eliminate all the passive verbs!

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Kirsi Dahl's avatar

Thank you for saying so, Deborah. When I tell people I have an “editor” I feel uncomfortably hoity-toity…but the reality is that a second pair of eyes that understand grammar and narrative structure makes a huge difference. In my case, my friend fits the bill perfectly.

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Deborah Sweeney's avatar

You are very lucky. I have struggled to find anyone willing to read my work, outside of my writing classes. I love my friends but they are all overwhelmed and busy. Also finding someone who understands creative nonfiction or genealogical writing is tough. I have found that most genealogists come at the the craft wanting to write their family stories down, but they don’t possess fundamental writing skills, knowing how to craft a narrative or the progress of drafting/editing/rewriting, etc.

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Jami's avatar

YOU TWO ARE CUTE!

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Paula Delesha's avatar

Pretty much :-)

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Flora M Brown's avatar

I loved this episode for the value you gave me as a writer, and excellent tips I can share with my audience as a life story coach. Thank you. I’m fortunate to have a copyeditor and editor as friends, but I still was imaging that other listeners are probably wondering: “Where can we find a ‘Paula’ ?”

Like you, I hold back on sending all my stories to my editor-friends for fear of taking advantage of their kindness.

I also struggle with convincing my students to write their first drafts from the heart without worrying about elegance and correctness, but persuading them of the importance of editing even if writing just for family and friends.

Since this podcast touched key concerns, I trust that you’re okay with me sharing it with my followers, with attribution of course.

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Kirsi Dahl's avatar

Flora, I'm glad you found some value in what Paula and I had to say. Please do share with your followers. As you probably gleaned from the podcast episode, it was over time that Paula and I came to an unwritten agreement that she would be my editor. That said, I still want to make sure I'm not taking advantage of her generous commitment to my hobby. One thing I remind myself is that I'm not on a deadline -- it's not imperative that my content get edited and posted within days. So, I try to always tell Paula that she can review "when she has time". That helps both of us feel less pressure, hopefully.

I 100% agree that new writers especially need to focus just on writing and worry about editing later -- and that writing and editing are two different skill sets. Good luck with your efforts!

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Flora M Brown's avatar

😀💕

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